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 Joint Op

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Ghost
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PostSubject: Joint Op   Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:08 pm

Well after I saw that people liked the whole "spontaneous" op idea, I thought all our teams (IAU, nipomo, orcutt) could make a joint op. No one person or team would host. We would all host. Of course since its spontaneous we'd have to have reffs but I just made this post so we could kick around ideas for a while. I know we have op:TA coming up so after that we could do one big joint op or somethin. Just an idea; all are welcome to post some thoughts on making this potential op the best yet.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:46 pm

would be fun, but idt that any of the groups is completely void of whinny people, cheaters, and the like, we cant ever have to much fun. if someone is not not calling thier hits, then someone is complaining that they got shot in the cheek when they chose to only wear sun glasses. and if it isnt those two then someone is whinning cause they were out, but were to lazy to hold thier gun up, so they got shot again. or "my gun was jammed and he shot me" or "he was to close and shot me" etc etc...i dont understand why we cant just logically work out what should be acceptable and what should not be acceptable, and just play. unpredictable things happening is what makes a game fun, not cheating or crying cause someone did something spontaneous...
once we get all that worked out, i believe every game can be as spontanious and fun as ghost and i want it to be.
so what if a random third team forms during a dull and basic team deathmatch game, and runs out and starts fighting, just role with it, and shoot back. it isnt right if they dont call thier hits, but if they do call thier hits and just play fair, sounds like a fun twist to me...
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:01 am

I like this idea. So is it a free op, or are the teams splitting profit?

For the spontaneous events, we just have to let the team know that some are going to happen. Obviously, we won't tell them exactly what will happen though (or when). Seeing as I am out of action until I buy more BBs, I volunteer to ref.

The way I see it, here's what we need to get done before we can have this op:
1. Establish a good amount (4 minimum?) of refs.
2. Figure out the the story and general game type
3. Plan Spontaneous Events (refs only)

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:31 am

Im thinkin free so everyone can go (because paying money is a demotivater).
I can handle factions but Id like someone like chosen one to design the story, and reffs (once we find more) can make plot twists.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:44 am

I agree with Mavin for the whining thing, but I think we've been getting better at it...there are some momentary mumblings when something is disagreed on, but mostly it doesn't last...unless it is a bad infraction (my brother being unloaded on at less than 5 feet comes to mind), which in case action should be taken anyway. I think, mostly, that we have overcome our small little gripes, and with enough refs (at least one from each team/organization), we could make this work nicely. I just REALLY hope I would be able to make this op when it happens...

Free is better, more people show up, people won't have the "I paid for this, I NEED a freaking say in every flippin' detail" excuse, and yeah, everyone would be happier...our fundraiser for the summer op got us like $80 or so, yet that money seems to have disappeared, so a pay-to-play wouldn't even have a purpose.

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Tue Sep 21, 2010 2:49 am

i remember that, but all im saying is limp off the field, and then yell at the idiot who shot you that close later Very Happy
never said let it go ;D
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:35 am

We just have to explain the rules to everyone. Perhaps an informational packet for players new to our groups?

Before we get started on the story and gameplay, I've got one more thing to mention--radios. The refs and team captains should all have radios if this is to work. That way refs will not have to go running around the field looking for the team captains or other refs when the Spontaneous Events (can we agree to call these SEs from now on? Laughing) start.

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:26 am

Of course, I get to write the story. Did you guys know I did not contribute anything to the Treacherous Angel Idea? That was entirely Weston's story (he's the leader of the AG group, maybe he could write the story).

If we were to have a joint op ran by all three groups, I would like to make it the biggest local event of the year. In order to make it insane, we would have to make it multi-day in my opinion.

My idea for the Ezekiel op that never happened was that I was going to include an in-game currency. You start out with a set amount. You earn more of this currency for completing objectives. You must carry it on you person, and if you are captured by the other team, they can demand that you give them all of your money. The currency can be used to buy mortar strikes, strafing runs, air strikes, med packs, etc. You could also use it to bribe a neutral faction to join your side. You people on Al-qaeda at Ezekiel know how much better it would have been if this were the case.

This would encourage many spontaneous events i.e. a player is captured, his money stolen, and he is held for ransom (or he can try to escape, so many possibilities).
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:41 am

es all the ideas are good fun, but how can you possibly facilitate an effecive support strike of any kind despite you currency
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:57 am

When the player acquires enough money, he calls a ref, tells the ref where he wants it, then the ref tells all the players in a predetermined vicinity that they are out.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 1:31 am

clAyton wrote:
fundraiser for the summer op got us like $80 or so, yet that money seems to have disappeared, so a pay-to-play wouldn't even have a purpose.

the money didn't disappear murman has it...and if u would like to know didn't spend it being as hes not corrupt and realizes its the groups money

in any case i do like the idea in general, however as someone stated info packets would be nice....from past experience there have been many communication failures on imp things such as re pawns and gametype in genral. if we were to do this id take part in the planning if needed because for this to work alot of organization would have to go into it. o and i think it should be held at the orcutt union valley field
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:00 am

wow really, just out. just like that. even though it is completely possible to survive said strikes, and the area and precision of the strike factor would be debated endlessly on the field and would cause many problems amongst the less so good sports amongst the groups. im just saying that if it is going to be that way, why have different support strikes if they all have the same effect.
and again we need a ref. this is one thing that tac city has over any of our games...that and people reloading and such within 5 minutes
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 3:49 am

I'll design a packet and can make the factions and objectives. Chosen 1: you and weston are both really good at designing stories so thats why but anyone can do it. If anyone wants to design the story it just has to be basic. I'll give them the factions list and they just have to implement them into the story. reffs (once designated) will design plot twists. I do like the multi-day idea and the currency idea. But I think that only teams as a whole should have currency not individual people. and there should be team "fortresses" or "home base" where people can go to hold supplies, hold hostages, or make strategies. There should for each team be a general who runs and organizes all the faction's units but does not really go in the field (but can have a pistol). The currency for each faction could be held at said "bases" and thus prompt teams to try and steal money thus adding to the random fun. Also the currency can only buy two things:
1.) A mercenary faction (such as the IRA or french foriegn legion)
2.) a game ending item such as a nuke.

These purchases can only happen if the general allows it. The nuke idea is to add randomness and to put a price on the generals head for calling in the nuke.

Any thoughts?
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:05 am

Chosen_1: I definitely agree, this should be the biggest local airsoft event of the year. I like the currency idea. I saw it on an ASR thread, but never got around to bringing it up here. However, I don't think support strikes (or nukes, Ghost) will work well. Nobody likes being out because of no visible reason. Maybe it is realistic, but it is not very fun. I think the currency should be used to benefit the team, not hurt the enemy. So you would be able to buy faster respawns or medics, things like that. That's my opinion though.

Kremer: If it is multiday, we can't have it at the Union Valley field unless we work something out with the landowner. Which is not a bad idea, if we can figure out who it is.

So this is how I envision the currency system working:
Each team will be assigned objectives. Once the team completes an objective, word is sent to a ref and currency is added to the team's "account." When currency is used, the team captain radios the ref and asks for something from a list (distributed with Ghost's info packets?) and the ref deducts an amount from the account. Once that is done, the ref sends back word that the purchase in in effect. The other team will be unaware that the transaction took place.

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:24 am

I do still think the mercenary idea would work too. and I do like the midic kit idea.
If its multi day I think it should be at the biggest field we have (not neccessarily Union Valley because its not strictly legal) plus I think its too small and a little sparse. Ive never played at Egypt but it sounds ideal. Since no one steps forward for story, I'll do it. I'll design and post a draft of it tommorow as well as the public objectives for the factions. We can then change anything that we dont like.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 4:35 pm

Alright, heres a draft of the story: February 4, 2011 a US satalite captures images of serbian soldiers invading murdering the residents of a small town in order to make room for a missle bay. The photographs also reveal that there were some russian soldiers involved. 2 weeks later the US lose contact with the satalite near Turkey. 6 days after losing the satalite, Azerbaijan officials state they have found the crash site north east of their capitol Baku, and will maintain military gaurd over it until the US can safetly remove it. Meanwhile Serbia plans to invade the region and take the valuable satalite before the US can remove it. Russia also takes interest and sides with Serbia agreeing they will destroy the evidence of their crime before the US can reveal it publically. A large force of Serbian national soldiers as well as a squad of Russian spetsnaz specialty soldiers move into the crash site's vicinity. Combat ensues as the Azerbaijan military fights to push the intruders back but soon realize they are outnumbered. The US military in response to the conflict send in a Delta Force detachment while Europe sends a United European specialty force made up of British SAS and Austrian EKO Cobra. In the middle of the turmoil an Iranian freedom fighter battalion offers aid to whoever has the highest price.

AXIS:
Spetsnaz (1 squad)
Serbian Army (3 squads)

ALLIES:
Azerbaijan Military (2 squads)
US Delta Force (1 squad)
SAS/EKO Cobra (1 squad)

MERCENARY:
Iranian Freedom Fighters (1-2 squads)

what do you think? If you like I'll add objectives and requirments for the teams.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 10:03 pm

Cool...

Just my questions...why are serbia and russia called axis? Also, I like the mercenary idea, I gotta say...but would iranians be mercenaries?

Pretty cool draft I think...and yay, looks like I'll be a mercenary! (if we do this in regards to uniforms, etc.)

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:05 pm

I think the Merc team should be something more neutral, like Sweden (Mercenaries the game, anyone?). Iran is pretty hostile toward the US right now.

Someone mentioned that all of my rewards were same, here's a list of example prices and effect:

50= med kit- instant self heal for player

100= long range sniper support- player chooses an enemy player to be "sniped" and calls head or tails. The ref than goes over to the unfortunate player and tells him he was "sniped", and depending on the call of the player, the sniped player is killed or wounded. The calling player does not know if his call was correct or not, therefore, he doesn't know if it was a kill or not.

150= mortar strike- The player chooses a bunker. All players within the bunker are killed or wounded at the discretion of the ref. This bonus can only be used on buildings, bunkers, etc. not on open ground.

200= 30mm strafing run- player points out an area of open ground. All players in a 50 foot vicinity are killed or wounded at the ref's discretion. This bonus is useless against entrenched or heavily bunkered targets.

500= airstrike- thorough carpet bombing in a 100 foot radius leaves all players wounded or killed at the discretion of the ref.

I am open to more suggestions as well as how the ref can decide who is killed or wounded (dice, maybe?). Also, someone said that there would be arguments. Yeah, if you want to get kicked out of the game, maybe. In any sport, the ref's word is law, you don't argue.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:28 pm

Chosen_1 wrote:
In any sport, the ref's word is law, you don't argue.

This. +1.

I like the idea of team currency, with team leaders (or a communications guy?) calling in the support. But, whatever works...

And, yeah, we could have Swedish Mercenaries, or just whatever nationality mercenaries...individuals, not organizations? Or not. My main thing with Iran was that Islamic Fundamentalists probably aren't up for selling themselves to kill...and yeah, the US thing. I still like the idea of mercenary though.

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:35 pm

Ya for hte mercenary thing I didnt really know what to put. Maybe the French Foreign Legion? and to aswer claytons question I call all (somewhat) evil forces AXIS and all good forces ALLIES.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:00 am

EDIT: Started writing this after Chosen_1's above post.

So the rewards would be for individuals, not the whole team? I am not sure that will work well, unless we have a huge number of objectives to get points for. Also, it would get chaotic managing the budgets of several players. Seems simpler to have all the funds go to the team, then the captain makes decision on what to do. Whether he listens to his teams' advice or not is up to him. We could keep the same system, but up the prices.

Also, by "wounded" are you suggesting a multiple hit to kill rule (as opposed to one hit kill), or a medic system? I think medics would work well for this game if we use team-tape bandages. Then another reward could be an extra medic "air dropped" into the game.

I know your list is just for example, but we should work out multiple reward choices for the price ranges so it is not predictable.

For deciding a kill or wound for the mortar strike, strafing run, and airstrike, I think that a warning system would work. It would be a good simulation of a "Mortar incoming!" type of thing so that people aren't taken out of the game out of the blue. The targets would get a brief signal that an attack is coming (air horn, maybe?) and have a certain amount of time to get clear. If they are still inside the strikezone when that time is up, they are killed. If they are near the edge, they are wounded. If they are completely and obviously out of the strike zone, they are unscathed. Times would be something like 2 seconds to get out of a bunker targeted by a mortar, 5 seconds to clear the strafing run area (or get in a bunker), and 8 seconds to clear an airstrike area. I think the system would work rather well without sacrificing a lot of realism. We can run a couple of tests and modify the warning times or strike radius as needed to make sure it is tough to get away with your life.


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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Thu Sep 23, 2010 12:20 am

I was thinking that the captain receives the funds for completing objectives, but he can decided how to divide that among his team. he can command his team to not spend it, do what they want, etc. If he holds all of the money, there is the slight chance of him being captured, all the money lost. Once again more open-ended...ness.

In regards to a warning system, that isn't all that realistic. Jet planes can move at faster than the speed of sound, so by the time you can hear them, you only have a few seconds. Mortar strikes go unannounced in the real world, your friend is there, one explosion later, only a crater remains.

The op would have to be how we did it for Ezekiel, you get shot, you lay on your back, any team member or ally can medic you by tying your white rag around your arm. In the case of all of these bonuses, more players would be wounded than killed (like real combat), so I don't think any of them would be overpowered. Also, if a team earns enough money to buy an air strike, I think they deserve it.

A nuke is a bad idea because it could cut the game short.
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Thu Sep 23, 2010 1:23 am

I see...so you're suggesting the captain gets the currency, and then delegates it to his team? Very good idea, IMO.

And back to the factions thing, I know it doesn't matter at all, but I just like to pick things out (I'm usually pessimistic about everything; nothing against you). Just gonna say, Russia and Azerbaijan and Serbia would (historically) be friends, I believe, due to that Slavic bond (WWI, anyone?).

And for the mercenary/freelancer, I liked it as mercenary because I don't need "proper" camo (I'm lazy and don't have any). I think depending on how many, the merc band could just be a bunch of freelancers or something. Or we could get like two people to be mercs and be a reward...eh, whatever, I'm just suggesting random things, sorry it doesn't help.

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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:02 am

heres the first part of the packet I'm making:
This packet will include any info or questions you have regarding Operation:*insert operation name*
Part 1: Rules of Engagement
You are killed if… you are hit in the head or torso (without a vest or plate carrier on).
You are wounded if… you are hit in the arms, hands, legs, feet, and torso (while wearing a vest or plate carrier).
When you are killed… you return to the nearest respawn point to respawn.
When you are wounded… you sit down on the ground and are unable to shoot or move, but are able to call for help.
If you are found by a friendly player while wounded… you may be healed if they are a medic, if they are not they may protect you until a medic can heal you.
If you are found by an enemy player while wounded… they have the choice of safety killing you or capturing you.
If you are captured by the enemy… you cannot run away and must follow them. The enemy is allowed to confiscate the captured player’s weapon and communication tool but both have to remain in a 50 foot proximity to the owner. Once in a stationary location, it is possible to escape by picking up any available weapon and safety killing your captors.
Use a safety kill when… you are within 5-10 feet or the enemy or when you find a wounded enemy.

Tell me what you think so far. Also on a side note, if we are going to use team captains/generals then what happens if he is killed?

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MRSPRINKLZ
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PostSubject: Re: Joint Op   Fri Sep 24, 2010 2:50 am

it makes sence...maybe idk about the confiscating weapon while realistic maybe we can just take all their mags away or depending on the gun take the battry, i know that i wouldnt like to have my gun taken but my battery and mags would be alright...as long as they arnt lost
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